So I don’t have two dogs?
Paragraph one was easy for me to understand – I can be fooled into thinking I can’t do what’s right, so Satan doesn’t have to try any harder to mess me up. I do that part for myself. I need to understand who I am as a saved person.
I appreciated this: God’s work…in changing sinners to saints is His greatest accomplishment on earth. Isn’t that the truth! For me, believing in the miracles described in the Bible are kind of easy; believing that God can and will change someone’s heart is tougher for me. I’m so grateful that He does, though.
And I like the way Neil breaks it down as far as sinner/saved: the change that happens to us on the inside happens all at once, at the moment we’re saved. We will never be any more saved than we are at that moment.
The outer change, though, takes place over time - for the rest of our lives. He could have stopped there, but he goes on: But the progressive work of sanctification is only fully effective when the radical, inner transformation of justification is realized and appropriated by faith.
Hunh?
After reading it several times, then turning the book sideways and upside down to see if it helped any (it didn’t), here’s what I got… The outer work, the one that’s a process, only actually happens if the inner work has been done. We won’t be able to get better at not sinning if we have been saved.
Did you get something else? If so, please share! I’m in the tall grass here.
I did love the ending, though, which challenges us to shift our thinking to that of Jesus Christ as the core of our being, enabling us to live in a way that pleases Him.
...and Johnny, we're very glad to know you feed your dog...
So our inner change is justification (to be set free from guilt or sin) our outer change is sanctification (conductive to spiritual blessings) and this is fully effective when appropriated (set apart) by faith.
ReplyDeleteAnalyze sentence, translate into Pattie English…So we get the free gift from God of forgiveness of sins, what we do with it is how much blessing we get from God, and when we add the amazing power of faith we will have the full effect of God’s blessing on our lives.
How was that interpretation? See this IS getting fun, I was prepared for the hard work today and Neil did not disappoint.
Michelle, exactly job pulling something out of today's posting. I have some significant disagreements with Neil but you helped pull useful material out. Thanks! Keep on pointing us forward!
ReplyDeleteOk, typo correction. "exactly" should be "excellent".
ReplyDeleteOk, John - actually, I'm glad you're not agreeing with everything! (although I hope you're not too frustrated) It means you're thinking it through and have opinions. That's all good in my book.
ReplyDeleteWhat don't you agree with?
Thanks for calling me out Michele. I'll try to explain it without writing a theological dissertation. Here are some of the things I disagreed with:
ReplyDelete"You may confess your proneness to sin and strive to do better, but you will live a continually defeated life because you perceive yourself to be only a sinner saved by grace who is hanging on until the rapture."
I believe there is great freedom and victory to remember that I am "only a sinner saved by grace." It helps keep the world, this culture and those I rub elbows with everyday who are not yet saved by grace in perspective for me. It is humbling and drives me to care for the lost. I believe to truly appreciate where you are, you need to remember where you came from. It helps combat complacency and self-righteousness.
"A sinner saved by grace" often drives me to my knees before the throne thanking Him who made that grace possible in the first place. I believe such a focus points to the wonder and incomprehensible love of God to give us His Son when there was nothing of ourselves that even remotely came close to making that an equitable trade.
I do not agree that such a focus causes you to "live a continually defeated life because you perceive yourself to be only a sinner saved by grace who is hanging on until the rapture." I have found quite the opposite to be true while at the same time helping keep my heart open to loving the lost.
In the same vain, I had trouble with this statement:
"The inner change, justification, is effected at the moment of salvation. The outer change in the believer's daily walk, sanctification, continues throughout life. But the progressive work of sanctification is only fully effective when the radical, inner transformation of justification is realized and appropriated by faith."
It seems to be internally contradictory. The paragraph above is the one I just finished commenting on. While using this one as a justification of his thesis statement in the previous paragraph, I find it to support the "sinner save by grace" concept he is arguing against.
Justification "is a legally sufficient reason or cause (as self-defense) for an act that would otherwise be criminal." (Dictionary.com)
Sanctification "involves more than a mere moral reformation of character, brought about by the power of the truth: it is the work of the Holy Spirit bringing the whole nature more and more under the influences of the new gracious principles implanted in the soul in regeneration. In other words, sanctification is the carrying on to perfection the work begun in regeneration"http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sanctification}
Justification points to us being saved by grace, sanctification points to an onging condition of us moving (choosing to move) further away from our sin nature and closer to resembling Jesus. This is a far cry from identifying ourselves as "sinner's saved by grace" locking us into continual sin patterns.
Lastly, having looked up the scriptures he referenced of Paul claiming to be the chief of sinners, I looked at three different transalations (NKJV, NLT, ESV) and I don't see where Paul is speaking in the past tense as Neil says. Quite the opposite, Paul uses past tense language in the surrounding verses but when he says he is the chief of sinners, he is using present tense (1 Tim. 1:15).
Well, I guess I failed to make this a short response. Not sure I logically laid out what I disagreed with. I didn't necessarily read this and disagree point by point as I wrote here. I disagreed with the general direction of his comment about "sinners saved by grace" and found some of his following points he used to support that claim faulty.
My hands hurt now from typing...
Wow. Awesome. Let me get you some ice! But thanks for sharing your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteIn pondering where the sticking point was for you, my guess was the deprecating use of the phrase sinners saved by grace. Hey - that's kind of scriptural, isn't it?
Without defending Neil, because as I was reading, I thought about several of the things you wrote about - I think his point may have been to emphasize the word only before that phrase, as if to say, I-am-what-I-am, and I can't overcome sin... That part works for me. The rest, I'm not sure of.
To be sure, there's power in our understanding of our sin and need for God's grace. To me, the phrase sinner saved by grace goes hand-in-hand with, But by the grace of God, there go I... (in terms of looking at the sins of other people, saved and unsaved)
If I were writing what I think Neil is getting at, I might say it like this - sometimes, Christians can't overcome sin in their lives because they don't understand they are no longer slaves to it. I think he's addressing the nominal Christians, or the new believers here.
It brings to mind a conversation I had recently with a special ed teacher about kids with chemical imbalances, such as ADHD, etc. She said that even when the chemical issues have been resolved, the child still has much work to do to break the behavior patterns they have established. Medicine isn't a magic wand in these cases, but it's hard to understand why if the child is appropriately treated (medically), the inappropriate behaviors take so long to stop.
Once we have been saved, it takes us a while to work out of the patterns we have established. And that's if we are motivated to do so...
Okay, so Neil, we'll agree to disagree with you on several points today. But we'll stay tuned to see what's in store for tomorrow.
Again - thank you for the discussion! (I love this stuff)
Well said Michele! I vote that we redact Neils entry and put yours in its place. Good insight and as much as I disagreed with Neil, I agree with you.
ReplyDelete